Tuesday, November 13, 2007


The Sin of Adam and Eve According to Augustine
Augustine (354 – 430), probably the most influential Christian theologian of all time, argued that the Eden account should be taken both literally and symbolically; that is to say, taken partly as historic fact and partly as spiritual truth. Augustine has played a major role in formulating the traditional Christian doctrine of Original Sin. Augustine believed sin had its beginning in sexual desire. His description of what making babies would have been like prior to the Fall seems ludicrous to most moderns. Here are Augustine's own words:

In Eden, it would have been possible to beget offspring without foul lust. The sexual organs would have been stimulated into necessary activity by will-power alone, just as the will controls other organs. Then, without being goaded on by the allurement of passion, the husband could have relaxed upon his wife's breasts with complete peace of mind and bodily tranquility, that part of his body not activated by tumultuous passion, but brought into service by the deliberate use of power when the need arose, the seed dispatched into the womb with no loss of his wife's virginity. So, the two sexes could have come together for impregnation and conception by an act of will, rather than by lustful cravings (City of God, Book 14, Chapter 26).

Before his conversion, Augustine said he "ran wild in the jungle of erotic adventures." The problem, according to Augustine, was that his love had "no restraint imposed [on it] by the exchange of mind with mind." Hence, pure love was perverted by its misdirection toward worldly things, i.e. bodies. Ideally, according to Augustine, sex should be used only for procreation, and even then only in a relationship focused not on lust but on a loving, rational partnership. This is how he saw Adam and Eve relating before their fall. St. Augustine wrote to a friend:

What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman. I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children.

Another quote from Augustine:

It is one thing to lie together with the sole will of generating: this has no fault. It is another to seek the pleasure of flesh in lying, although within the limits of marriage, this has venial fault.

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

The City of God quote shows Augustine's unease with male sexuality not with women's breasts. The quote allegedly from a letter is probably a google invention, not from Augustine at all.

Anonymous said...

If you read "A History of Ideas on Women", you will large portions of direct quotes from Augustine, as well as many other early church "fathers". Augustine uses Pagan ideas of "paterfamilieas" in which he argues rule over the wife because woman is "temptress, wife and mother". He considered woman to be an instrument of the devil as temptress and an instrument of her husband as wife. He said she is the "instrument of God's creativity as mother". He argued that satan deceived the woman because she was weaker. He pointed out that Solomon was also seduced to idolatry by women (as in, it is the woman's fault.). As ruler of the family, a husband's correction of any member of the family (wife, or child) is to be by "word or blow". Augustine was a very sexual man, so he may have felt guilty about that, but he was blaming women for it, it appears. These quotes come from "Words of Aurelius Augustine" in "City of God". These are his own direct quotes which you can verify on your own if you are a truth seeker. He saw "woman as auxiliary to man". We need to honestly look at all aspects of his teachings and not assume everything he said was directly from God.

Anonymous said...

If you read "A History of Ideas on Women", you will see large portions of direct quotes from Augustine, as well as many other early church "fathers". Augustine uses Pagan ideas of "paterfamilieas" in which he argues rule over the wife because woman is "temptress, wife and mother". He considered woman to be an instrument of the devil as temptress and an instrument of her husband as wife. He said she is the "instrument of God's creativity as mother". He argued that satan deceived the woman because she was weaker. He pointed out that Solomon was also seduced to idolatry by women (as in, it is the woman's fault.). As ruler of the family, a husband's correction of any member of the family (wife, or child) is to be by "word or blow". Augustine was a very sexual man, so he may have felt guilty about that, but he was blaming women for it, it appears. These quotes come from "Words of Aurelius Augustine" in "City of God". These are his own direct quotes which you can verify on your own if you are a truth seeker. He saw "woman as auxiliary to man". We need to honestly look at all aspects of his teachings and not assume everything he said was directly from God.

Anonymous said...

"What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman. I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children."

That isn't actually written by Augustine. I, for one, am familiar with "A History of Ideas on Women" due to it largely being responsible for propagating this false notion.

You'll often see people on the internet quoting it as Augustine's without ever citing the original, specific work whence it is supposed to have originated. People quoting people quoting people. I found the source of the quote to be one of Augustine's many letters, sort of. I say "sort of", because the second half of that quote (I fail to...) is not in his letter, nor in any of his letters, because he never wrote it.

The letter, which I've read in full, was a reply to one Laetus, who wrote to Augustine for advice regarding Laetus' aspiration to become a priest—his mother was ardently against his ordination, and so naturally Laetus was torn between "honoring his mother" (a commandment) and answering a vocation and the call to evangelize. Augustine goes at length theologically (as he does) to discuss both sides of the issue, ultimately encouraging Laetus to defer to God before his family, which explains the first half of the quote. There's nothing misogynistic about it at all.

A very competent Catholic apologist named Anthony Wales authored an article entitled "A Response to Sherif Abdel Azeem's Eve's Fault and Eve's Legacy" which goes in detail, fyi to any viewers who are interested (those who might deem themselves 'truth seekers').

Apparently that second half of the (false) quote originates with Sherif Abdel Azeem, who argued Christian misogyny as a defense/response to criticisms of sexism in Islamic society. Wales clarifies and corrects many of Azeem's contentions, explaining away empty allegations of sexism by church fathers and doctors (A prime example is Azeem accusing St Thomas Aquinas of misogyny when the quote he used to argue this was actually St Thomas Aquinas quoting Aristotle—Thomas Aquinas cited Aristotle's quote only to follow with a rebuttal arguing why woman is not worth less than man, in accordance with his Christian tradition).

But I digress. My point is the prime source you cite is proven wrong and your claims, by citing authority from this dubious source, are made dubious in turn. It's not the first time Augustine's been misquoted or misrepresented, sadly.